Do you Argue too much? - Instablogs
Do you Argue too much?
K.R.RAVI , potomac: Sep 22 2009
Made Popular Sep 23 2009
India :

Do you Argue too much?

ARE YOU ARGUMENTATIVE?

The Indian Prime minister addressed top government officials a month ago and told them that the system was ridden with corruption. I did not think he said something not known to us for decades. I recall Nehru announcing — to thunderous claps — that he will hang black marketers from the nearest lamp post. A few years later I wrote a letter to a newspaper editor that far from hanging black marketers the government has not been able to hang even lamps from lamp posts.

Rajeev Gandhi promised to eliminate power brokers – to thunderous claps — but we know what he did about corruption. The saga goes on and our current PM is another in a long line of eminent and powerful people who make grandiose statements but do nothing at all about the problem.

Apart from our inability or unwillingness to move from talk to action, I can see another aspect of our national psyche that is debilitating.

In a recent article I had bemoaned the lack of quality in many aspects of out national life. I cited the example of cinema where we are content with being one of the largest film producing countries in the world but had little to show by way of quality.

A reader — well meaning and wise no doubt — replied that quality was subjective and in any case masala movies are made everywhere.
Now my contention is that in retaliating this way we tend to continue to make masala movies. That something is subjective should not make us complacent. This I am afraid is what is happening in many fields.

Take corruption. Whenever I tell someone in India that our politicians are among the most venal the barrage of responses runs like this:

Corruption is everywhere.
Politicians everywhere are corrupt.
USA is also corrupt.
All of us are corrupt.

[The implication seems to be that we are in the same boat as other countries so we need not worry] All these statements are true to some degree but in making such retaliatory statements we tend to brush the crisis under the carpet – something that suits our netas and babus fine. In the welter of arguments we forget the crisis.

When I talk of poverty in India, I get the response — there is poverty in the US too. I once got so disappointed with this response that I said’ ‘There are rich people in India too. Does that mean that India is as wealthy as the US?’

Such errors are called ERRORS OF MAGNITUDE. Thus poverty in the US is minuscule compared to India. In any case the US government definition of poverty - $2000 pm for a family of 4 — will put many well fed people in India in the Below the Poverty Level!

As for cinema while it is true that Hollywood makes masala movies it is also true that by any yardstick India cinema lags behind countries that make hardly 5 or 6 movies a year but walk away with international recognition. It is of little help to launch a tirade on how awards are no indicator of quality.

We tend to be seen as isolationists as people with a siege mentality, as people forever looking for someone to blame for our ills, as a people sullenly sitting in a corner indulging in self pity. Rather like an unwed cynical frustrated aunt in our households who frowns on youngsters having fun.

We are an argumentative country as a famous Nobel Laureate has said,.The trouble is that often our emotions run amuck and we make serious errors in our thinking . I have written an entire book on the errors in thinking that we make .It is heartening for me to see that many people agree with me—they have made it a best seller in India.

Another reader wrote after reading my article that no one offers solutions. We only talk about the problem[s]. My answer is that the solutions are known .Those in power have a vested interest in NOT SOLVING THE PROBLM.

One reader asked me to explain the MAGNITUDE ERROR.
I gave him this example :
1 x 0 = 0
100 X 0= 0
Can we say that 1 = 100?
K.R.RAVI

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1 Stars
Ekta
Jaipur, India
Even i have observed this in many of the comments on IB that people start arguing with foreigners giving them silly logic. But instead of pointing others i think we should focus on our own follies
2 Stars
Julie
New Delhi, India
India has to work very hard for the progress that it should ideally achieve. Since 60 years we are still struggling for basic things. People are living in poverty in inhumane condition. Children are begging or working instead of studying. India needs big time hard work minus corruption.
1 Stars
You have hit the nail on the head Ravi.We tend to ignore the repercussions of getting involved in such deceptions.We should face the truth instead of ignoring it.

Another very interesting phenomenon during serious debates is that people ignore the well-meaning observations of others by stating that ”it’s merely a perception”.They end the debate(or in other words ignore the advice)by stating that ”You have your perception and I have my perception”.

Debates/Arguments can be either constructive or destructive.Well,it depend upon us how we come to use our arguments.I hope u must have heard/read ”The Argumentative Indian” by Amartya Sen which talks about ”traditions of public debate and intellectual pluralism” in India.He there lays stress on fact that we need to our honour argumentative tradition for the better progress of our nation.

Therefore, LET’S ARGUE but let it not be a mean to avoid reality or create confusion.
1 Stars
TJ
Calgary, Canada
Arguments cannot change the facts. No matter how much you try to defend your point, the people who are observing knows the fact and then your arguments do not hold any importance. Hence it is important to realise your drawbacks and try to mend them.
1 Stars
Keshri Shahi
Lucknow, India
Arguing logically and objectively is not a bad thing and is the part of a fact finding process that can help in identifying and solving the problems, but if arguments are made to defend the wrongs then they become a problem themselves.Some times the arguments are made logically but with deliberate intention to protect a wrong.That also create a problem.As an example we can take our legal system where the knowledge of law and the power of arguments are used often to defend the wrong doers.It is clearly visible that a government servant and politician has amassed the property disproportionate to his known valid income and it can also be verified that how much property his parents and relatives had,the so called strong law of corruption(Prevention of Corruption Act)is made incapable by the arguments of our advocates and judges mostly claiming that there is no evidence found.What more evidence is needed if the property itself speaks of its value that can never be legitimately acquired by its holder.Similarly,murders take place but no convictions could be made thanks to the arguments of the lawyers. Ajmal Kasab has committed terrorist activities,clear proofs are there and he has to be punished for that, but arguments are on, in the name of justice, wasting the public money.So, things are like that.
Argument is good, and being argumentative is also good, but only if it is made in good faith and for the right cause.
1 Stars
Keshriji U are in league with great Indian ”argumentative tradition”..Keep it up.
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